tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post2600012936273596603..comments2024-03-16T01:00:59.945-04:00Comments on Query Shark: #171-Revised 6xJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-89864731602517411852010-10-19T14:51:48.429-04:002010-10-19T14:51:48.429-04:00After all the revisions, I think the author is fin...After all the revisions, I think the author is finally getting it. I'm not real sure I would buy or read this book, but, I enjoyed reading all the comments.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05885587918063229446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-3539751210888471632010-10-19T11:43:03.229-04:002010-10-19T11:43:03.229-04:00As people have said, these revisions are going rea...As people have said, these revisions are going really well! I would just add one tiny comment: "owes Nicky a debt he cannot forget" has a sort of rhythm and rhyme to it that, for me, detracts from the sentence's gravity.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06778844984552621292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-39570614646445301992010-10-13T12:44:47.015-04:002010-10-13T12:44:47.015-04:00Carol, that's going to depend if your MSWord p...Carol, that's going to depend if your MSWord pages are single, 1.5 or double. If you format the way agents want, including title/name as a header and page number footer, you'll probably be down around 250.<br /><br />For para two, howza bout: "Released from prison, Nicky disappears. Months later he resurfaces, telling Frankie he has uncovered evidence against a mob boss. Now Nicky needs Frankie's help desperately."<br /><br />In para three, replace the second and third commas and the *two* words after each with a period. Viola, instant tension.<br /><br />"After two months and no word from Nicky, the murders start. Now Frankie has five bodies with mob connections. Evidence points to someone from the old neighborhood. He can’t imagine it's Nicky. When the other suspects end up dead, he has no doubt."<br /><br />I'd love to read this novel, but I agree with everyone else about the author needing to re-read it and chop those compound sentences.Tharihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718957974153020522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-57681687093263545692010-10-11T19:17:01.444-04:002010-10-11T19:17:01.444-04:00This entry mentions word count must be included. ...This entry mentions word count must be included. I recently heard that word count is 250 words times the number of pages rather than the word count supplied by Microsoft Word, text in Times New Roman 12. I have found that is a significant size difference in my manuscript. Which word count should I use when I submit my query?Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12747487582147564846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-88434279345181353652010-10-11T07:46:53.926-04:002010-10-11T07:46:53.926-04:00Rev 6 - demonstrably better. This isn't my sub...Rev 6 - demonstrably better. This isn't my subject matter, but I found the last story-related paragraph quite effective, even compelling. <br /><br />Way to improve and stick with it.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-37964388486759182162010-10-10T18:37:55.876-04:002010-10-10T18:37:55.876-04:00Nice job! This query is much better! Especially ...Nice job! This query is much better! Especially compared to the first version, this is superb! It could still use a tiny bit of tweaking, just what the Shark said, but you're doing great! Also, it looks to me as if you have a few sentences you don't need, and are lacking some you do. Also, it has a bit of a slow start. If you can stick in a bang, like the murders, in there, it would be a lot more attention-grabbing.<br />You're almost there, so keep it up! Best of luck!wizardonskis22https://www.blogger.com/profile/06685192078420924575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-87898053264194189292010-09-27T00:59:33.556-04:002010-09-27T00:59:33.556-04:00I just want to say, after 5 revisions, kudos to th...I just want to say, after 5 revisions, kudos to the author for perseverance! Don't give up! Focus, focus, focus.Zoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15451844238099966226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-85251510242456678772010-09-15T11:09:14.921-04:002010-09-15T11:09:14.921-04:00Rev #4 This seems much improved. I would follow Ja...Rev #4 This seems much improved. I would follow Janet's advice and trim where she says and excise everything but the conflict between Nicky and Frankie. <br /><br />Perhaps you might, instead, provide a hint (not a lot, just a nibble) on WHY Frankie thinks Nicky is the only suspect (other than Tony croaking). If Nicky's been in jail, why think Nicky's involved at all? I mean, it's New York; surely there are other suspects.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-80548149369153070102010-09-10T18:40:21.490-04:002010-09-10T18:40:21.490-04:00I think this one is much better than the others, i...I think this one is much better than the others, if only because now I understand who the protagonist is. However, I agree with the shark that starting over might be a good idea. Now, I start reading and am immediately confused by the winstons. Maybe if you just start with a great hook, show us how awesome Frankie is, add in the little problem with his friend out to get him, and then toss in the problem, you'll be all set. Your story sounds intersting, and I'm sure you can make the queries great, too. Also, in this verison, you don't specify that Frankie is a detective. We all know it, and we might be able to figure it out, but he could be a PI, a cop, a CIA, or a guy who likes solving crimes. Throwing that in would help, I think. Good luck, and way to keep trying!wizardonskis22https://www.blogger.com/profile/06685192078420924575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-19453433116902402572010-09-09T12:49:45.238-04:002010-09-09T12:49:45.238-04:00Rev #3 - You've bounced from one protagonist t...Rev #3 - You've bounced from one protagonist to the other and back again. Which is it? This shouldn't be query dependent - it should be in the book. <br /><br />For a story like this, I think we need to be invested in the character. WHY? A detective who came from the criminal element can be a fine character, but not because of what he is, but who. You only have what. <br /><br />Yet, not here and not in the other revs have I seen who he is or why I should care that his childhood chum is coming after him. (After all, being a cop can be enough reason for some criminals). <br /><br />I also think the play by play of scenes isn't helping you. In a whodunit type story, you use clues for deductions, but these clues, disembodied in the query, don't lead a stranger to deduce anything. I would think this sends a bad message.<br /><br />My suggestion would be to check your book. Find out there first - who's the central character and what about him makes him worth the journey. If it's not crystal in the book, make it so. Once it is, you'll know what you need to make the query reflect that.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-352092305914192042010-09-05T15:19:46.274-04:002010-09-05T15:19:46.274-04:00A of all, this sounds like an interesting idea, an...A of all, this sounds like an interesting idea, and I would definitely read this book.<br />B of all, it is true that the query could use a bit of work. For one thing, I'm somewhat confused about the characters. The first version has Nicky as the obvious protagonist. The second one makes it seem like Frankie is. By the third one, you seem to switch halfway through. By now, I'm not quite sure whether it's one or the other, or if they are both the protagonist, at different parts of the story. Maybe Tony is actually the protagonist in disguise, for all I know.<br />Also, although I am not expert, I bet you could cut half of it out and end up with a crisp, clean, captivating query. From the most recent version, I would say something along the lines of Nicky is hitman. Must kill blackmailing woman, but falls in love and runs away with her to marry. Goes to friend Detective Frankie in Cleveland, but then wife is murdered. heads out for revenge against everyone who did this, makes it clear he's heading for Frankie.<br />Frankie must balance b/w work and friends as he chases the murderer but suspect is his closest friend. Why is Nicky doing this? What should Frankie do?<br />Title, word count, etc. A lot of the other stuff seems like too much explaining to me. For example, it's interesting that the future wife twirls her necklace, reminding him of the only woman he ever loved (which, now, is no longer the only, so that part makes less sense now). Seems like a good way to save your life, actually, if she could have found out about it before... But really, for now it's only important that he fell in love and ran away to get married to her. You can leave the story to tell us why it happened, because hopefully we'll be curious.<br />C of all, Good luck!wizardonskis22https://www.blogger.com/profile/06685192078420924575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-91508301080474171672010-09-04T20:33:46.606-04:002010-09-04T20:33:46.606-04:00Rev #2, OK, the hitman falls for a target, escapes...Rev #2, OK, the hitman falls for a target, escapes and marries her, but, when he turns to an old cop buddy for help, she gets hit and he's left for dead. I mean, what kind of professional killer doesn't make sure the other hitman is actually dead? And then, he assumes the cop's behind it? Um, okay.<br /><br />If the plot isn't strong, I'd think the characters must be. And I've still no real sense of anyone here.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-3390735170376402072010-09-04T18:23:30.811-04:002010-09-04T18:23:30.811-04:00In the latest (9/4) revision of this query, the th...In the latest (9/4) revision of this query, the third friend Tony isn't mentioned until the line that the evidence points either to Nicky or Tony. Since I've read the earlier versions of the query I know who Tony is, but if I hadn't read them, I would be clueless here. It's not absolutely clear tat Tony is one of the two friends Frankie made an oath with as a child, and actually I don't think it's necessary to include him in the query at all. He ends up dead anyway so the story's not really about him. <br /><br />This is a story, from what I can tell, about a cop caught between two promises, struggling with the choice of loyalty to a childhood friend or loyalty to the law and his career. I like the previous version of the query, which focused more on Frankie, better, because this choice, this tension, is interesting. I wonder what Frankie's choice will be. A hit man going on a killing spree to avenge his dead wife is not that intriguing because I already know what he's doing and I already know why; you've kinda given all that away. That meant there's nothing more for me to learn about him and therefore no reason for me to want to read more.<br /><br />I'm new to the whole query business, but as a potential reader my suggestion is to focus your query more on Frankie and the choice he has to face.Zoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15451844238099966226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-21541827194958664102010-08-29T21:55:58.989-04:002010-08-29T21:55:58.989-04:00Here's my problem with this book, with one qui...Here's my problem with this book, with one quick conversation Frankie can remove himself from the entire plot, and eventually your reader will wonder why he doesn't. Would look a little something like this:<br /><br />Frankie: "Sarge, I got a problem."<br /><br />Sarge: "Talk to me, Dono'."<br /><br />Frankie: "I grew up with the suspects. Nicky's practically my best friend, he saved my life once. I just can't be objective here."<br /><br />Sarge: "Oh yeah, I forgot yous was a Queens rat."<br /><br />Frankie: "I'm recusing myself from the investigation."<br /><br />Sarge: "Forget that, I'm removing you from the investigation."<br /><br />Frankie: "Tell the Feds to get off my ass too."<br /><br />Sarge: "Done and done."<br /><br />-the end-<br /><br />You're trying to frame his situation as an impossible choice but it's really not. <br /><br />Furthermore, you're trying to position Frankie as above-board, trying to do what's right in an impossible situation. But to avoid the difficulty I outline above he would have to be crooked already, he'd have to be hiding his relationship to the suspects.<br /><br />Please tell me you found some way to deal with this problem. Otherwise, your protagonist is coming off as TSTL.<br /><br />If Frankie is secretly an insider mole, hiding his relationship to the suspects, then all you've done is recreate the plot to <i>The Departed</i> with minor variation.<br /><br />Lastly, I find it hard to imagine that any vow taken at 8-years old has much force this far into adulthood.M. G. E.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08995766358224581297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-21015805014455765692010-08-27T09:30:43.599-04:002010-08-27T09:30:43.599-04:00Too cliche for me. And I have to say, I'm not ...Too cliche for me. And I have to say, I'm not much more sympathetic for a bad cop (i.e. one that would let a friend get away with murder) than I am with a contract killer (and I still don't know why I'd find him interesting). Could it be done? Yeah, but it takes a lot of work and cleverness.<br /><br />I'd think, if you're going to pursue a concept so overused (and I've seen this a dozen times even though this isn't my genre), you'd need to include what makes this different in your query. Without something to set this apart, I don't see the appeal.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-29688024486520683432010-08-24T08:35:44.774-04:002010-08-24T08:35:44.774-04:00I've written a couple of stories from the POV ...I've written a couple of stories from the POV of a rather nasty character - one of them a hitman - and I just want to mention that you don't have to <b>like</b> the main character, you just have to care what happens to him one way or the other. <br />So, if your hitman has redeeming features, we'd like to know what they are just so that if it turns he doesn't, we can go ahead and hate him, and enjoy watching him get his come-uppance.<br /><br />I liked the tone of this query; the POV didn't bother me too much but, as CB Hoffman said, there's a danger of it coming across like a cliché. <br /><br />The name/s definitely need a re-think, too. You're not writing historical fiction so you're not constrained too much by names that did or didn't exist, and who knows why parents choose certain names over others ... but try to use the wide variety we've got out there wisely. A great website is www.behindthename.com - if you haven't used it yet, that is. <br /><br />Good luck, and I look forward to reading of your success someday!Terri Nixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01128748951796407341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-51440203453830519332010-08-21T23:09:13.582-04:002010-08-21T23:09:13.582-04:00I'm guessing that originality comes from the a...I'm guessing that originality comes from the author's voice, because no two authors are exactly the same. Good question, though.St0n3hengehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08504412781917592790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-49472027859488616912010-08-21T15:07:58.639-04:002010-08-21T15:07:58.639-04:00>>how is it possible to be original?
Steve...>>how is it possible to be original?<br /><br /><br />Steve, there may be a definitive answer to this question, so take my guess for what it's worth. I think originality is found in the <i>characters</i> one creates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-54674792354715589652010-08-21T10:34:06.802-04:002010-08-21T10:34:06.802-04:00At the risk of appearing to be sucking up (I'm...At the risk of appearing to be sucking up (I'm not)I have to say your blogs are the most educational tools on the internet, and forget about print media. Many thanks from your audience. The word is superb. We appreciate you. Since you don't ever see us, that needs to be said.<br /><br />OK, that's said. Now for a question. When I first got into this racket there were very few agents and publishers had first readers to sort through all the dreck. Their job was not really to find publishable material but to identify which would be authors sent a query in that contained a threat. As in "you publisha my book or I'll breaka your [fill in the blanks.]" The queries that did not contain threats went in the trash, but the ones that did contain threats got special treatment. I dunno if that means they went to the police or the bestseller list. It made me wish I worked as a first reader. I think reading dreadful queries mixed in with threats would be fun. Unfortunately, publishers did not pay generously, and living in Manhattan on the minimum wage minus mysterious unexplained deductions was a non-starter so I stayed in Texas and did not move back.<br /><br />So the question, after reading this query is, do people still do that? I notice Jack Abbott and numerous other criminals did rather well in publishing. Joe Bonanno got his book published and so did his son Bill. (No, no, they're not giving me any ideas. I am not Norman Mailer. I never stabbed anyone but I suspect Mailer's skills with a knife advanced his career.)<br /><br />And question number two: I appreciate the need for originality, but if there are only thirty-six plot situations and they have been rehashed over and over since the days of Plautus (or is it Homer?) how is it possible to be original?<br /><br />It is a real problem. Maybe the guys from Brooklyn who wrote all those threatening letters had the right idea. I know they got published because I read their books.Steve Stubbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10051363877066768708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-80066512356320946072010-08-19T11:38:18.147-04:002010-08-19T11:38:18.147-04:00I'm sure if you're willing to write a whol...I'm sure if you're willing to write a whole series as this character, he's likable. <br /><br />Why not go to third person, Nicky has this CONFLICT/ these TROUBLES. He started out like this and all he wanted was this and this. But maybe he should have expected days like these when he first became a hitman.<br /><br />That way it is almost a surprise? I already like him and his occupation is just another of his quirks.<br /><br />But I'm no expert.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-79655032544754149272010-08-17T21:48:37.239-04:002010-08-17T21:48:37.239-04:00John McNight, the QS blog is only for queries for ...John McNight, the QS blog is only for queries for novels. Some of what you read here does not apply to memoir, or narrative non-fiction (a lot of it actually.)<br /><br />Obviously if you are the main character, ie you are writing a memoir, you use first person Point of View.Janet Reidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-65267733371801628712010-08-17T21:42:00.355-04:002010-08-17T21:42:00.355-04:00I love the voice, and I even like the basic idea. ...I love the voice, and I even like the basic idea. My own manuscript right now involves an antihero, so I have no problem discovering in the course of the story why we should be sympathetic, but then that's me.<br /><br />Because the general story idea has been done before, I would suggest you be extremely careful about sounding too cliche, i.e. too much like something out of a 50s gangster movie or a Mickey Spillane novel. If it's taking place modern day, make sure you seamlessly integrate references to modern-day things, notions, etc., and use modern-day speech.<br /><br />Lastly, you've got to give us some idea of the plot of story. And because it's a query and you don't have the luxury of building up to why we should give a rat's rear-end about Nicky, include something that creates at least a niggling of sympathy for him.CB Hoffmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09427075906953909342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-49804668623235400562010-08-17T18:53:47.647-04:002010-08-17T18:53:47.647-04:00I am in no position to critique a query, especiall...I am in no position to critique a query, especially since I am awaiting the shredding of my third revision. That said, here I go anyway.<br /><br />It seems to me that the author simply attached the first few paragraphs of the novel to his query, because for a book start, it ain't bad. The voice reminded me of #123, but without the street slang and without all the info we need, such as plot, conflict etc. If you remember, #123 really nailed it.<br /><br />So as much as QS advises not to use character POV, I know she will overlook it if it's done well.<br /><br />As an author of a detective series myself, I would love to read this book (I think) Good luck with the revision 171. I would like to see you win.dana e donovanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09018257326494278111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-38133426833037023662010-08-17T15:40:06.018-04:002010-08-17T15:40:06.018-04:00Well written, and great first try. You are brave ...Well written, and great first try. You are brave and I salute you!<br /><br />I feel like the author is holding back secrets for fear of spoiling the book. If the plot is hinged on twists, it might be better to parade those twists out as a selling point. I don't think an agent has ever read a manuscript and then said, "well crap, this author told me this twist was coming when they sent in their query. I hate this book now."<br /><br />Good Luck, and I'm excited for the re-write!NG Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02692485849015300878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-32382057362570225372010-08-17T14:50:31.799-04:002010-08-17T14:50:31.799-04:00I have a grandfather Frankie D. who is Italian, fr...I have a grandfather Frankie D. who is Italian, from the Bronx. He has a son Frank, but he's older than my mom. I'm 33 years old, and I don't know a single person my age named Frank. From my perspective, the name is outdated.St0n3hengehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08504412781917592790noreply@blogger.com