tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post6671512044536645606..comments2024-03-16T01:00:59.945-04:00Comments on Query Shark: #173-Revised 2xJanet Reidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00615380335938685231noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-89888735074736579402011-08-31T09:52:21.986-04:002011-08-31T09:52:21.986-04:00I would also encourage the writer to go back to wh...I would also encourage the writer to go back to what Ms. QueryShark said on the second re-write (with a great analogy to ballet). Get the basics right before trying to be clever. The novel may have a literary tone to it, and the writer may be trying to convey that voice in the query, but it's not working. The point of the query is to show the agent what the book is about. I would suggest if the voice gets in the way of this, then the voice needs to be toned down, at least initially.<br /><br />My suggestion is to begin by spelling out in bullet points and simple sentences what the story is about. Then remove any bullet points that deal with secondary characters, plots, etc. You can then use this as a framework for crafting the query. When you have written the query, let it sit for a couple of days. Then go back and edit it. Read it aloud. Read it to a spouse, friend, or really anyone else and ask them "do you get what the novel is about?" And "does this make you want to read it?"<br /><br />I hope that helps.Colin Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03292997431935215499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-47648691141070162672010-12-05T11:59:57.715-05:002010-12-05T11:59:57.715-05:00Rev 12/4:
There is a school of thought that bein...Rev 12/4: <br /><br />There is a school of thought that being cryptic is provocative and inspires a reader to want to learn more. For most of the people I know, including myself, it just gives us a headache. <br /><br />The second paragraph adds nothing. The third paragraph walzes around what happening without saying it. The fourth and fifth paragraphs are saying what? Don't be obscure. That just works against you. It's not enticing. It's frustrating. <br /><br />Be clear. This is a woman in a business where you can be a has-been in your mid-twenties and have to reinvent yourself, where old rivalries and personal differences can work against you. I think it's a message that can speak to people, even if they aren't into dance. <br /><br />Dancing around what you're trying to say isn't going to send the message you want or sell the story. <br /><br />Tell the story, clearly and concisely. Tell us why Yvonne's plight should matter to anyone else, or it <em>won't</em> matter to anyone else.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-13291613027333563862010-09-04T11:43:46.450-04:002010-09-04T11:43:46.450-04:00Lise: "Even more so, as the query-writing se...Lise: "Even more so, as the query-writing seems to be so much fact/plot oriented these days, and metaphorical/poetical writing is frowned upon in it, IMO. <br /><br />Now, it could have been the query or the first five pages, as they were together. Or both:-["<br /><br />I'm sorry for commenting twice in a row but I just saw this. Lise, I am a ballet dancer, an art nut, and I prefer literary fiction to commercial fiction any day. In other words, I am your your target audience. And after reading your query, I'm still not interested. This is partly because of the confusing structure of many of your sentences, but also because I don't see any heart in your query - which is what dance is about and what I would hope to see in a character so dedicated to the art form - and because I don't see the theme coming across strongly in your query, which is what literary fiction is about. <br /><br />You need to be able to express these things clearly and concisely in a single page for anyone to believe you can do it in 400 pages.<br /><br />You've been given a lot of different suggestions for how you can change your query to make it work better, but you're choosing to defend your query rather than revise (well, maybe you are revising, it just seems like you're pretty gung-ho about keeping this query the way it is). Why?<br /><br />I'm all about believing in your story and standing behind it, but this isn't your story; it's a query, and if you're querying it's because you want your book to be published and other people to read it. That means your query -has- to to be something that will interest an agent or publisher; you -have- to write for them. As I said, I am the most likely type of person to be interested in your story, and your query turned me off because it's dry and difficult to read. I really hope you take some of the criticisms here to heart; they are coming from people who want you to succeed.Zoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15451844238099966226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-35228456088700334992010-09-03T23:28:42.288-04:002010-09-03T23:28:42.288-04:00As far as writing style goes, being a literary nov...As far as writing style goes, being a literary novel doesn't mean writing confusing, awkward sentences. Some sentences in this query were so difficult to follow that I'm not sure I understand what the plot is. Literary fiction is not actually as flowery as we tend to think it is.<br /><br />A note from a dancer (and this is about content rather than writing style) - having friends who are ballet dancers doesn't necessarily mean you know enough about the subject, so I really hope the author did some research. A thirty-something-year-old dancer would never get picked up by a ballet company, because she's practically past retirement age. Also, the transition from dancing to choreographing is not all that "rare"; I mean, every choreographer was once a dancer, and a lot of dancers become teachers (which nearly always involves choreographing). If you mean she's become a successful or renowned choreographer, that's something else.<br /><br />I love to see dance used as a backdrop for books and movies, but it's a field most people are not very familiar with. This means you can probably get away with making up what you don't know, but it also means any dancer who picks up your manuscript is going to be annoyed out of their mind if anything jumps out as being highly improbable or inaccurate.Zoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15451844238099966226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-47098552459900557002010-09-01T20:31:20.062-04:002010-09-01T20:31:20.062-04:00Lise, for what it's worth. I have written a do...Lise, for what it's worth. I have written a dozen books over ten years and have sent out literary thousands of queries in that time (Janet and FinePrint Literary Management included).<br /><br />Typically, it is two or three hundred queries per book, between books.<br /><br />Talk about rejection! Not a single agent requested pages.<br /><br />I admit, it was difficult reading the criticisms of my first submission here on Query Shark, but after a friendly nudge from people like JS, Stephanie, Josin, Arhooley and the rest of the regulars here, it dawned on me-it's the query, stupid. (me stupid, not you).<br /><br />I know you don't agree with everyone here. I didn't agree with everyone entirely either. But clearly you are smart, articulate and imaginative.<br /><br />I am not telling you to do this. I am just saying. Once I realized that it was the query, stupid, I stepped back, took a deep breath and resolved to write the perfect query utilizing all the free advice I received here.<br /><br />BTW, I am still working on that query. If Janet and the others will have me, I will keep at it until I get it right.<br /><br />Best of luck to you, sincerely.dana e donovanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09018257326494278111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-68064533367420958572010-09-01T00:42:17.245-04:002010-09-01T00:42:17.245-04:00@Lise:
I think you need to cut to the heart of yo...@Lise:<br /><br />I think you need to cut to the heart of your story and talk about what exactly your character is facing up against and trying to overcome.<br /><br />Since it's litfic the opposition is likely to be something intangible, which is fine, but what that does is set the spotlight on her character.<br /><br />So, I'd jump out with a quick intro line about your character that incorporates one attention-getting word which characterizes your character perfectly, then jump into the central conflict she faces and will push through during the course of the story.<br /><br />For instance, I suggest you find a word that is unusual to use in description. So, if I describe Billy as a gangly weasel of a boy--what jumps out at you is the word "weasel", it's visual and interesting and characterizes him.<br /><br />Then give the inciting incident of the story and segue into the central conflict and the situation that precipitates it.<br /><br />Even if that conflict and situation is mostly internal, it will be possible to describe it.<br /><br />And again, your prose has to be extra polished for litfic, and that includes the query.M. G. E.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08995766358224581297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-4787816708028588152010-08-30T09:03:55.197-04:002010-08-30T09:03:55.197-04:00M. G. E. said:
[BTW, really interesting thoughts....M. G. E. said:<br /><br />[BTW, really interesting thoughts.] <br /><br /><i>If it's litfic and not a mystery, then you certainly don't need to start it with the attempted murder and pose it as a frame-narrative.</i><br /><br />I don't need to, but I could, this is the whole point of my argument: it's an alternative. <br /><br />I think there's a place for frame stories in litfic, and one only has to see what Donald Mass mentions as examples for "frame story/tale told in flashback":<br /><br />Joseph Conrad's "Heart of Darkness"<br />Robert James Waller's "The Bridges of Madison Country"<br />Thornton Wilder's "The Bridge of San Luis Rey"<br /><br />They are all litfic. <br /><br />Also, Mr. Maass mentions that the frame story is esp recommended in novels which span a long time or have a long setup time, and mine does. <br /><br /><i>The reason litfic doesn't have quite the same formula as genre fiction is because the point of litfic is the character focus, and to understand a character well you have to see them respond to -many- life situations.</i><br /><br />Fully agree with you on this one. <br /><br />My major difficulty is <b>how to cover character changes or long thought/imaginative processes (say thinking about a new choreography, for my MC)</b> <b>in a query</b>. These take tens of pages in the novel, and trying to compact that takes me many times to "telling," that is to dryness. <br /><br />Even more so, as the query-writing seems to be so much fact/plot oriented these days, and metaphorical/poetical writing is frowned upon in it, IMO. <br /><br />Any ideas, everyone?<br /><br />BTW, I tested a query very close to Remora Rhetorica's suggestions (which are much less convoluted that my initial version presented here) on a real agent. The result wasn't much better, still a form rejection.<br /><br />Now, it could have been the query or the first five pages, as they were together. Or both:-[<br /><br />Or it could be that the litfic and the subject matter (ballet, character changes in a ballerina, her creative process) could be perceived as less hot by some of the agents. <br /><br />I'm going to continue real-life testing:-)Mariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753053389181597555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-42837518856323139272010-08-29T21:24:07.028-04:002010-08-29T21:24:07.028-04:00If it's litfic and not a mystery, then you cer...If it's litfic and not a mystery, then you certainly don't need to start it with the attempted murder and pose it as a frame-narrative.<br /><br />Doing that would actually be counterproductive, because flashbacks are inherently anti-dramatic, generally, and basically gives away the highpoint of your story. And it changes the genre, as has been mentioned, to mystery.<br /><br />Every character in your flashback from that point on becomes a potential suspect or red-herring. Every new character introduced causes the reader to ask, "Could this be the one who wants to kill her?"<br /><br />The reason litfic doesn't have quite the same formula as genre fiction is because the point of litfic is the character focus, and to understand a character well you have to see them respond to -many- life situations.<br /><br />At the same time, those situational challenges have to be crafted specifically to reveal the character's personality.<br /><br />Your strange mix of plot-driven mystery with the aim of litfic means you're writing at cross-purposes, and it simply may not work.<br /><br />But, I'll tell you what's definitely not going to work: your attempt at a literary tone which is falling completely flat.<br /><br />When I read this I had zero idea what you meant: <br /><br /><i>"However, when she is between life and death as a result of an attempt on her life, the time machines need rewinding, in a search for light."</i><br /><br />When the reader has to stop, re-read, and puzzle through the meaning, the illusion of fiction is broken utterly, and that is the cardinal sin of fiction writing. <br /><br />I thought you meant literally that she had (more than one) time machine that was driven by a winding mechanism... which then, apparently, lights her room or something.<br /><br />What you've got here is a statement that's extremely general and that you mean to be taken metaphorically without making it clear that it's a metaphor--largely because you're packing too many metaphors too closely together. <br /><br />It's almost like you're trying to invent new phrases of "surprising description"--which is what all good litfic tries to do--but it's ended up obfuscating your actual meaning by being too general.<br /><br />You mean that she's thinking back on her life to discover who might want to kill her. Listen, there's nothing wrong with saying exactly that!<br /><br />Meaning trumps floweriness.<br /><br />Floweriness is completely wasted if it's also not crystal clear to the reader. <br /><br />Those phrases that stun and surprise us in litfic are also usually extremely visual and easily imagined. There's nothing easily imagined about that phrase or the rest of your writing in the query.<br /><br />I think this was the most difficult to read query on the entire site so far, and yes I've read all of them.M. G. E.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08995766358224581297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-6008386256190203462010-08-29T02:42:35.153-04:002010-08-29T02:42:35.153-04:00Your search for creative phrases makes for a hard ...Your search for creative phrases makes for a hard read. Even in third person, the narrator's voice has to suck a person in like your best friend. Someone you can listen to for hours without your brain going numb. <br /><br />Your query suggest a middle aged woman trying to find herself, but you comments about lust make me think the real plot and mechanisms are something other than the self quest. Maybe step back and rethink what drives the story.Makurohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16186696279194365754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-82794886268110524072010-08-28T22:44:15.753-04:002010-08-28T22:44:15.753-04:00L. Bowser said:
>At 39, struggling to maintain...L. Bowser said:<br /><br />>At 39, struggling to maintain a connection to the only life she'd<br />known, her muse struck. Memories of flying kites with her father<br />flooded back. The way they would direct them across the<br />sky. Simplicity. Grace. Beauty. The answer was simple. Choreography. <br /><br />All this is fine with me, but would resonate for many of the agents<br />as "telling, not showing," I'm afraid. <br /><br />I wonder if others here don't feel the same. <br /><br />Thanks, anyway.Mariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753053389181597555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-11922982203003819652010-08-27T13:12:50.400-04:002010-08-27T13:12:50.400-04:00I'm a little late on this one, but here goes a...I'm a little late on this one, but here goes anyway. The critique will be mixed between what doesn't work for the story and what doesn't work for the critique.<br /><br />>> My sister is a professional dancer. Knowing her and her collegues, I can tell you it is not rare that a choreographer is a former dancer. What is rare is for that transistion, especially for women, to occur so late in life. Earlier in her 30s would be closer to normal. Even more rare would be for someone to walk away from dance for a period of time and then make that transition.<br /><br />>> I feel like the first paragraph doesn't really tell me much about the story, other than she is dying.<br /><br />>>Since the entire book, based on your current query, appears to be a flashback I think you'll have a hard time writing an effective query. Is the majority of the book really a flashback? If not, that needs to be clear.<br /><br />>>Since the title of your book is "Kites", I might focus a little more on this connection with her choice for choreography. What was the specific connection.<br /><br />>>Doubts are mounting after the hit on her? About what? That someone has it in for her? That someone is trying to sabotage her? This makes little sense to me. While dancers can be truly vicious, it tends to be in back-biting, alienaty you from your mentors and connections sort of way. Not the kill you kind of way. Either way, there should be little doubt that someone is trying to kill her.<br /><br />>> All you need is the line "I am seeking representation for KITES, a 120,000-word literary novel." The rest should have been shown by your query above.<br /><br />>>The dancer friends are interesting if you routinely talk about the industry or if they went on to dancing fame. Otherwise, I would leave it out.<br /><br />So with all that said, here is the query that I would try and write.<br /><br />Dear Ms. Shark,<br /><br />Yvonne debuted at 16 as the prima ballerina in Don Quixote. It was all down hill from there. <br /><br />At 39, struggling to maintain a connection to the only life she'd known, her muse struck. Memories of flying kites with her father flooded back. The way they would direct them across the sky. Simplicity. Grace. Beauty. The answer was simple. Choreography.<br /><br />Now she has climbed to the summit. Her international debut in Berlin is about to begin. But she's missing. Dying. And only one question consumes her. Who?<br /><br />My literary novel, KITES, is complete at 120,000 words.<br /><br />Sincerely,L. Bowserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01661558231136130062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-33001238427294049272010-08-25T07:07:46.739-04:002010-08-25T07:07:46.739-04:00JS:
I tend to believe your advice. Your query for...JS:<br /><br />I tend to believe your advice. Your query for Mrs. Dolloway (thanks again) showed some beautiful phrasing and simplicity.Mariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753053389181597555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-79646993722170387402010-08-25T01:01:57.418-04:002010-08-25T01:01:57.418-04:00Lise1977--
Your writing does not sound, to me*, l...Lise1977--<br /><br />Your writing does not sound, to me*, like idiomatic US English. Hunting for rare usages in other published works to support your point isn't going to make your writing sound like idiomatic US English. <br /><br />You are getting this advice from me for free. Other people pay me for similar advice (although they know who I am and what my experience and credentials are, so it's a different kind of interaction than here in the Shark's commentariat).<br /><br />But here's the thing about my free advice: of course you may take it or leave it (just as my paying clients do); arguing points with me, on the other hand, is a waste of time for both of us.<br /><br />* (where "me" is "a 45-year-old US publishing professional"--in other words, someone quite similar to the people who'll be reading your query)JShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13974691019739092440noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-69241054007942843442010-08-24T19:29:58.762-04:002010-08-24T19:29:58.762-04:00@ Victoria Dunn
Scrimpy's archaic? Man, I lov...@ Victoria Dunn<br /><br />Scrimpy's archaic? Man, I love that word. <br /><br />How irksome.Stephanie Barrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17772217449161603561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-36583759242064505122010-08-24T18:36:57.492-04:002010-08-24T18:36:57.492-04:00Remora:
Thanks for reviewing the pros and cons of ...Remora:<br />Thanks for reviewing the pros and cons of the two alternatives. Indeed, I have two versions (frame story and usual) for some time.<br /><br />Victoria Dunn said:<br />>My suggestion would be to try rewriting your query in very plain language.<br />Absolutely. <br /><br />Arhooley:<br />Thanks for your proposal. It's fine to me, but it has two rhetorical questions. The agents don't seem to like that. <br /><br />Josin:<br />> realize you've made a mistake in presentation.<br />Oh, I know that. I wouldn't be here otherwise:-)<br /><br />Thanks again, everyone.Mariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753053389181597555noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-45101067011501914922010-08-24T17:41:27.987-04:002010-08-24T17:41:27.987-04:00Being a writer is tough. It’s an often times lonel...Being a writer is tough. It’s an often times lonely and highly frustrating career choice. “Making it” as a writer means confronting obstacle after obstacle and finding a way through, over or around. If you want to be a published and successful writer the first thing you must learn is how to take criticism. I do not suggest you take all criticism and immediately alter your writing to follow the ideas offered by others, but I do strongly suggest you listen carefully to whatever criticism you receive, even that which makes you angry. Often times it is the stuff that pisses us off, the stuff that makes us say “oh, that person has no idea what she is talking about” that is the most valuable. <br />A young woman who recently joined our writer’s circle submitted a short story for our critique. As other members gently (truly, not nasty at all) began picking the story apart – and there was a lot to pick apart – the young woman visibly got angrier. Finally, she stood up and shouted “well, my friends at work and my family all read the story and told me it was wonderful. I guess they know more than you guys” and then she stomped out. A few days later I happened to run into the writer and she asked me what I truly thought of her work. Instead of responding to that question I told her that if she wanted an ego boost or the joy of hearing someone say she was a wonderful writer then she needed to listen to her friends and family. However, if the goal was to improve as a writer, to hone her skills and to, one day, become published, she needed to listen to less flattering critiques as well. <br />Nobody likes to hear negative things said about their writing. All of us would like to believe ourselves capable of becoming the next “big thing” in publishing. None of us, not you, not me, not any one here, is going to become a great writer unless we are willing to drop our defenses and really, really hear criticism. <br />You’ve received some good feedback here, from Janet and from the rest of the want-to-be writers here. Don’t waste this opportunity.Irene Troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11839666907158210573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-47264743056001731252010-08-24T16:03:52.216-04:002010-08-24T16:03:52.216-04:00Your position and your point should be obvious. Th...Your position and your point should be obvious. The moment you have to defend one or the other, should be the moment you realize you've made a mistake in presentation.Josin L. McQueinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05751043333147850336noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-83800459188648777972010-08-24T15:55:36.740-04:002010-08-24T15:55:36.740-04:00Lise1977 - There's a huge difference between &...Lise1977 - There's a huge difference between "technically correct" and "pleasing to read" or “easy to understand”.<br /><br />I was irritated with a word puzzle the other day, because it used two words I'd never seen before. "Unthorough" and "scrimpy". Now they're both real words, and I've come around to liking "scrimpy" (it's just archaic, after all), but I still think "unthorough" is awkward and ugly, and I don't want it in my puzzles. Especially since "unfinished" has the same number of letters and matches the definition just as well. I felt cheated.<br /><br />What people are trying to tell you isn't that you're incorrect, but that to a casual reader your query writing has the appearance of being incorrect.<br /><br />My suggestion would be to try rewriting your query in very plain language, then work in a single unifying metaphor. Not time machines (technology), darkness (death), searching (quest), bleeding (injury), tacking (usually sailing, versus kites), kite flying (childhood), and cresting (ocean waves) all at the same time.<br /><br />Just pick one - you can do a lot for instance with the kite metaphor alone, using wind and a sense of being propelled along through life and encountering storms, etc... Bringing that theme forward will also tie in nicely with your title.<br /><br />Also, if you have your ballerina being murdered in a bathtub, don’t bury the lead! It’s a real attention grabber.Victoria Dunnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15938068756961072239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-86234361054229651662010-08-24T13:48:07.036-04:002010-08-24T13:48:07.036-04:00what to say after I start the unrolling of her lif...<i>what to say after I start the unrolling of her life story which I think I did by mentioning the time machine? It's 30 years, a long _process_. What to select of it? How to sweep it in one para of say 100 words? </i><br /><br />All right, since you ask, I've got a suggestion. I understand authors don't like rewrites, but I'm doing it anyway. Let's put this up for a vote.<br /><br /><br />Yvonne, a 39-year-old retired ballerina, has beaten the odds and attained success as a choreographer. Is that why someone has attempted to murder her in her bathwater?<br /><br />As her life hangs by a thread, she recalls her career as a dancer from her earliest days -- painful hours at the barre, an enviable stage debut at the age of 16, a faithless lover, the inevitable waning of her powers, and a surprising source of creative renewal. Where, she wonders, did she make a lethal enemy?<br /><br />KITES is a 120,000-word literary novel about the challenge of change, about spurring one's imagination, about lust and envy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-45443476772883251582010-08-24T13:08:07.410-04:002010-08-24T13:08:07.410-04:00And one last snarky comment: if you are going to c...And one last snarky comment: if you are going to criticize others' usage/punctuation, then you must first learn what is correct. Many of you need to learn the subjunctive mood.Tharihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718957974153020522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-92029666882662832812010-08-24T12:54:32.672-04:002010-08-24T12:54:32.672-04:00And just as a last(?) thought on the "we are ...And just as a last(?) thought on the "we are not criticizing the novel, we are criticizing the query" - BUT, oh, yes, the big BUT, the advice given to the query is to be applied to the novel as well, is it not? If the flow or structure of the query is off, then the flow and structure of the novel are likely to be off as well.<br /><br />The novel is what drives the substance of the query, the writing in the query is an indication of the writing in the novel. The two are inextricably intertwined, and a critique of one must needs extend to the other.<br /><br />That said, there is a difference between saying "I don't like frame oriented novels," which is USELESS criticism, and saying "you have obscure (at best) word usage in this query". <br /><br />Lise: if people here find your usage/punctuation/whathaveyou unreadable, then undoubtedly the general public will, too. And they will stop reading after one or two pages, whereas we will still read everything because that is the nature of this place. Has anybody outside your lover/family read your book? What were their comments?<br /><br />All that said (slap me later, if you must), I would be interested in reading this novel just to see what inspiration the MC's father and his kites gave to her. I love the idea of a "life-review" sort of novel, I've read several and enjoyed them all. I wish you the best of luck.Tharihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04718957974153020522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-2993349862469105672010-08-24T10:21:31.272-04:002010-08-24T10:21:31.272-04:00Lise1977, I've known a lot of writers who have...Lise1977, I've known a lot of writers who have made it and a lot who haven't. The main difference between them isn't talent. The difference is their reaction to criticism.<br /><br />Please think about that for a moment.<br /><br />The writers who don't make it can all offer cogent, plausible, lengthy explanations of why they've written as they have. What they can't do (or rather don't, or won't) is accept the critiques they get, learn from them, and evolve as writers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-30635881123007016312010-08-24T00:14:10.506-04:002010-08-24T00:14:10.506-04:00Lise, It's bad enough that you blame poor Mr. ...Lise, It's bad enough that you blame poor Mr. Maass for the failure of your first query. Then you get defensive when people point out that your sentence constructions are awkward. Trust me, they're awkward.<br /><br />"Debuting through envy " doesn't make sense no matter how many famous people you quote. A debut is something that happens IN ONE NIGHT. That is not the same thing as the years it would take for a movie to "pass through the envy belt."<br /><br />The only reason Lawrence of Arabia "passed through the envy belt" is because technology was racing forward so fast in the making of early films that the movie was quickly surpassed, thereby making it not quite such an awe-inspiring thing. In a way, it's sort of like the past few years of digital animation. Toy Story was amazing when it came out, but Avatar makes it seem quaint. None of this applies to your sentence.<br /><br />Also, you can technically use "chip in" the way you have used it, but since it is rarely used that way, it made it seem like maybe you didn't know a better way of putting what you wanted to say. Just because somebody else used it and got away with it doesn't prove it isn't awkward. If that example was provided by the dictionary, then it wasn't an example to show you the best way use that phrase. That is not what dictionaries are for. It was to show you that it CAN BE used that way. BTW, if I was writing a story about ballet, I wouldn't take my advice on word choice from a book called Ninjahunter!<br /><br />My dictionary says that "bait" can mean to take refreshment on a journey, but I'm not likely to use it that way.<br /><br />The dictionary doesn't teach you about language flow and style. It's primary purpose is to provide every POSSIBLE definition of a word or phrase. If you want to use reference works and quotes from famous people, that's fine. But you're using the reference works the wrong way and misunderstanding the quotes. <br /><br />I'd still like to see a query review or a brief synopsis that might help us to help you put things in order.St0n3hengehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08504412781917592790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-47130217444061391032010-08-23T21:11:27.081-04:002010-08-23T21:11:27.081-04:00The advice on that point is contradictory. Those w...The advice on that point <i>is</i> contradictory. Those who suggested you begin with the hook of the murder suggested it because it is a good hook. It is interesting and unique. The fact that you use it in your novel as the frame is proof positive that it is a good hook.<br /><br />We are not debating whether or not it is a good hook, however.<br /><br />The question is if that specific hook is functional in a query. Ms. Shark, myself, and others pointed out that a chronological explanation of events may be more useful for a query than a framed one.<br /><br />Framing is a legitimate and enticing organizational tool for novels. Of this there is no doubt.<br /><br /><i>However,</i> the inverse chronology is ill-suited to a query, in my opinion. A query conveys the sense of the story in an enticing manner, and while framing is enticing when you have the space to situate it properly, I feel that in a 100-word query, such explanation is difficult. <br /><br />Because queries are so short and so pointed, framing comes off as clunky, poorly organized, and flat-out confusing. <b>If</b> you can situate a mini-frame within your query, then by all means do so, because the bathtub murder of a retired ballerina <i>is</i> a good hook. It works in your novel and it <i>could</i> work in your query.<br /><br /><b>If</b> you can explain it properly. The problem is, perhaps you can't. That's not a failing of yours--100 words is paltry compared to the decadence of an entire novel, and even the best writers have difficulty boiling down their work into a 100-word bite.<br /><br />The advice on either side of this point is sound. The murder is a good hook. The murder is also at the chronological <i>end</i> of Yvonne's life. Either explain chronologically (in the query) because that's the intuitive way to convey a story, or start with the hook because you feel you can adequately segue from the murder to the flashback, cogently and succinctly.<br /><br />I know I tried to do so in my previous example, and I honestly couldn't. Everything I came up with was "bewildering, trite, or both." If you can, Lise, then more power to you.<br /><br />Perhaps most importantly, author, remember that this is <i>your</i> book. This is <i>your</i> query. We are here to critique you, assist you, encourage you, and advise you, but never to demoralize you, nor tell you what to do.<br /><br />Try writing two queries, one that begins with the murder and segues, and one that is chronological. Write them both, leave them overnight, then read them both. <i>You</i> decide, at that point, which is more effective--or, if you want outside opinions, submit them both as alternate revisions for Ms. Reid to post.<br /><br />PS: many thanks to Robert for his words of appreciation. I'd been worried I've been coming across as garrulous and pedantic, but if my attempted help is truly construed as helpful then my qualms are allayed.D.N.Frosthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02827587824214274008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4812909700950069050.post-71682160284918823762010-08-23T19:56:01.178-04:002010-08-23T19:56:01.178-04:00JS:
Thanks for the advice, but:
1. On "ch...JS:<br /><br />Thanks for the advice, but: <br /><br />1. On "chip in," I used definition 3 here: <br />----<br />chip in<br /><br />intransitive verb<br />1 : to put up a chip or chips as one's stake at cards<br />2 : to contribute money or assistance to an enterprise <br />3 : to interject a comment into a conversation : INTERPOSE<br /><br />transitive verb : CONTRIBUTE <br /><br />Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged.<br />----<br /><br />An example in fiction: <br /><br />----<br />Ninjahunter - Page 29<br />David Amerland - Preview<br /><br />"Young Paolo is right," Gaspare Napoli chipped in, his aging voice dripping authority. <br />http://tinyurl.com/23umtuz<br />----<br /><br />I have nothing against "chime in," but "chip in" works too, IMO. <br /><br /><br />2. In "debuting ... through the envy" I really meant crossing/traversing/passing through something like a mass of envy, just as the famous David Lean said about "Lawrence of Arabia":<br /><br />----<br />David Lean: interviews - Page 54<br />Steven Organ - 2009 - 149 pages - Preview<br /><br />It has passed through the envy belt. It's now an old picture. Nowadays everybody's flocking to see it.<br />http://tinyurl.com/298nhet<br />----Mariushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01753053389181597555noreply@blogger.com